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« Sali watch, continued | Main | Midweek roundup »

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Cameron

Sisy, you flail away valiantly at the straw man you have constructed, but cause no injury to my thesis.

Nowhere did I write that the US is free from religious fundamentalism, even the type that can compel one to violence. I did, however, point out the difference between the US and Iraq with respect to their fundamentalists. Case in point being how Julie noted that the three protesters in Washington did not and could not have had bombs strapped to themselves. Why didn't they? Either their fundamentalism didn't compel them to, or US security systems are just plain better than Iraq's. I stated then and I repeat now that I think it's a little of both. I will also repeat that if the first is true, then it proves my point about the relative fundamentalism in the two countries, and if the latter is true, then it argues for increased military in Iraq to provide security.

As for your "review", you fail with the first sentence:

"little sectarian violence before the war because country ruled by ruthless dictator."

Hundreds of thousands of murders does not equate to "little sectarian violence". If, as Julie suggests, our action makes the US responsible for the civilian deaths in Iraq since 2003, then what is our responsibility for the deaths that happened because of our inaction?

BoiseNick

For the blinded by "partisan faith" among us, some examples of Fundamentalist "Christian" Terrorism IN America today :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism


check out my latest blog post (http://geedubyablows.blogspot.com/) to see aNother example of hateful Christianist extremism ,,,

Julie Fanselow

Cameron,

Yes, Saddam was a brutal killer, but most of his killing took place in the 1980s. And shamefully, the US turned a blind eye to his use of chemical weapons during that era - click my name.


Sisyphus

You are a curious one, Cameron. Your "thesis" continues to elude me. Iraq was a secular state before the invasion, probably more than any other Arab country. It was not a source of violent religious fundamentalism before our invasion. Not one of the 9/11 terrorists emenated from Iraq and its generally acknowledged that al Qaeda representatives in Iraq are foriegn. Nobody disagrees that the security we enjoy in the US is more than what we are providing Iraq.

I think you confuse sectarian violence with Saddam ruthlessly holding onto power. I don't think you can equate them. But I'm sure you'll try. Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarian_violence And while I have no desire to defend Saddam I think you also exagerate the amount of his own people he killed in the process. Perhaps you're lost in the casualty figures on the Iran Iraq War. I don't even know where to start with the "logic" behind your last question.

And Julie I would add that turning a blind eye is way too kind. More like actively assisted develop his weapons program. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A52241-2002Dec29

Sisyphus

Sorry Julie should have read your cite first.

Sisyphus

Also national blogs are not dropping the Sali issue: http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/16/rep-sali-refuses-to-back-down-over-bigoted-comments/

Elizabeth Schmitz

From Schmitz Blitz: schmitzblitz.wordpress.com

Perhaps the Congressmen should take a look a the Constitution, which he gave an oath (before God nonetheless) to uphold. Article VI reads, “no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

This is not the first time Sali has tried to push the ‘Christian Nation’ myth. In a speech to the House floor in March commemorating the 220th Anniversary of Virginia’s Statute for Religious Freedom, Sali argued that Thomas Jefferson never really supported the “wall of separation.” He said:

"the ‘wall” was designed not to prevent people of faith from expressing their views in the public square, or to discourage them from applying their faith to public life, but rather to prevent the Federal Government from suppressing Judeo-Christian beliefs or their adherents."

I wonder if Sali actually read Virginia’s Statute for Religious Freedom? I’m guessing he either missed this point, or couldn’t understand the irony of it before writing his speech:

"that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time"

Seeing as the Congressman had difficulty reading and/or comprehending the Virginia Statute, there’s probably a good chance he missed this bit from Thomas Jefferson’s autobiography:

"The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that it’s protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word “Jesus Christ,” so that it should read “a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion.” The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it’s protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination."

It’s always frustrating to me that the American people continue to elect guys like Sali who are not only religious bigots, but are also ignorant of the basics of American history.

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Normal0falsefalsefalseEN-USX-NONEX-NONEMicrosoftInternetExplorer4 The fact that mime swan roots across through Ak is often ignored by many people specialists. Learning involving United States and also Nova scotia signifies that silence swans first inhabitant of American region. Fossils involving mime swans inside several claims of the US tend to be as compared to thousand years. Mime swans are made to extinct in order to make opportinity for trumpeter swan. Is reasonable? Who will be the actual words for your mute swans in the The us? A history associated with Silence Swans in America and a Confusing Previous By simply Kathryn Burton as well as John Alison,Expert degree For countless years, regardless of strong proof to the contrary, the mute swan (Cygnus olor)has been called a non-native hen, shipped in coming from Great britain. It can be, in reality, an old circumboreal hen, using a background across The united kingdom, Asia and europe along with in the Euro Maritimes as well as Kamchatka, an important holding region for an incredible number of chickens in migration over the National country, ten or twenty yards coming from Alaska. (Dement'ev The early 70s, M.Weiloch 1992) The actual silence swan arenas the globe in some latitudes regarding nesting as well as migration. A number of international locations lay claim to the mime swan, decorating rubber stamps as well as money having its impression, through Tiongkok in order to Ireland. The usa agencies intend to make the idea wiped out, even though Canada, any Agreement lover, has no this sort of killing applications. Hopefully to create clear the function give money has within opportunities consumed by organizations promoting packages suggested from the federal government organizations, without technological schedule or perhaps in clash along with scientific info and/or their very own rules. These kind of data suggest that a great ancestral proto-mute swan as well as swans made lineages above an extensive stretch of time, changing in your area and possibly concurrently throughout United states along with Eurasia, designed divergently through various neighborhood ecological demands but nevertheless homotaxic. How does anti-mute swan thoughts create? During the 1600s, many settlers came below through the British Isles. A good a "royal symbol" for example the mime swan, has not been satisfactory, especially in areas such as Hudson's Bay, in which a number of Scottish and Irish personnel held a intense animosity in the The queen's. (Lindsay lohan, 2003) It was unlawful in order to kill the mime swan, safeguarded with the california king, punishable through fine as well as dying, a new legislation in which achieved into Europe (Churcher,2007). It's not at all suprising and then, that records from Hudson's These kinds of Company usually do not mention types of their records of swan skin, utilizing "probably the majority of ended up trumpeter swans..." rather. Even so, a mute swan sternum was found in your neighborhood as well as registered in a Royal Ontario Public selection and a 2 College book (H.Savage and also Deb.Sadler The year 2003). Your sternum ended up being was involved with mid-late 1600s, Toes.Albany, (pre-colonization). Paperwork created in Incline versus Norton, Two thousand and two for the government national argument, disclose the activity associated with mute swans via in which division of Europe to the Usa, over the Excellent Ponds.(Cirianca, Late 2001) Even though imports of silence swans have been noted, and also predicted, it is likely that any "natural migration" (without the palm of man) with a number of way back when ancient date gets apparent. Past seen in four or five states within The us and also the 1600s specimen from Europe, demonstrate that. "The question is not might mime swans have fallen on to this kind of place? but, precisely why would certainly that they not?" (P.Ersus.Martin, 2000) Results of Mislabeling This lack of voracity when controlling well-known places your swans at the downside to protection and also examination regarding ecological effect. Although organization individuals confess research tend not to show intensive bad affects in order to environment or even surroundings, the very restricted info is offered while addressing a new "potential" issue caused by your species. Regular hen conduct is viewed as intense, granted like a cause of "removal" from the swans. These kinds of exercise will be endorsed simply by formerly respectable mother nature groupings, for example Audubon as well as the Nature Conservancy. Both look as professionals, in Economic council chair and Property proceedings in offered USFWS applications, both are heirs of large federal government company grants, through those similar agencies. Parrot Paleontology Report Miocene, Pliocene and Pleistocene past ( Something like 20 trillion to be able to 15,500 years ago) discovered from various internet sites in the us stand for Cygnus paloregonus, the mime swan genotype found in Guess Body of water, Modifies his name in large numbers. These kinds of traditional swans had been "very just like, yet somehow distinct"from Cygnus olor, the particular silence swan (Contend 1878) (Coues 1887) The difference ended up being mostly dimensions. After operate hypothesised simply by Bergmann (1847) as well as verified inside Baird's intensive assortment at the Smithsonian, supplies a reason behind the size variation in a varieties, determined by to produce, but mostly height, latitude, temperature, inland along with resort dampness (She, 1993)and lastly food accessibility along with local weather two opposites. This might account for a new size difference within the exact same types of chicken through modern-day United states of america along with the Russia/Siberia coastline throughout avian fossils. Corresponding Pleistocene non-renewable swan material is discovered from Hagerman Non-renewable Mattresses Countrywide Monument. Stab Brodkorb from the School involving Florida explained a example, later named Olor hibbardi (Wilson Bulletins (1958) 7(Several): pg.237). It is just a mime swan homologue (Bickart 1990), (McDonald, Late 2001). California reports have observed extra Cygnus paloregonus past within the Anza-Borrego Leave (Jefferson,2006). State of arizona provides yielded any late-Pleistocene non-renewable, nearly the same as the particular mime swan (Howard 1956, Bickart 1990), and named C.e. mariae. Mute-like traditional your bones through the late Pliocene in Nebraska have been identified as Paracygnus plattensis (Small 1969)Guess swans from diverse Us internet sites affirm any prehistoric profile involving a few lineages involving North American silence swan homologues inside the Miocene, Pliocene along with Pleistocene. Sooner or later, north of manchester American genotype perhaps proceeded to go wiped out. Nonetheless, it might even be they will "never gone wiped out, but became exceptionally exceptional and may even have got continued inside little pockets regarding far-fletched aspects of the particular continent" (At the.Pielou,2001) pers.org. This routine in addition identifies the history of another swan in the us, the swan that has been identified with silence swans inside Non-renewable River, Oregon, the trumpeter. Today Untamed mime swans at present appear in the location involving Fort Albany (Abraham as well as Ross June 2006), throughout environments comparable to people who had been present presently there within the Seventeenth Hundred years. About July 16, 2008, a silence swan ended up being observed about mudflats only a few mls through the web site in which the swan breast bone was found from the Kenyon team (author.cit.). The silence swan is circumboreal throughout high of Asia and europe. Once-a-year Accounts through the Trumpeter Swan Culture include describes of Eurasian mime, Bewick's, and also whooper swans coming into Alaska.(M.Sladen, T. King 1978) The whooper swans also are seen to get to your Aleutians (Eichholz and also James,1997)Yosemite, Massachusetts occasionally, through Iceland, (Sutton,1962) one more location in which the silence swans use a history. Currently, concerning 07, 000 silence swans happen in at least Twenty one claims as well as three Canadian provinces. Inside north latitudes every one of the several swan varieties fly together about migration throughout Europe and Asia along with Bewick's, whooper and also racing (currently tundra) swans have got long been recognized in the future straight into Alaska, with deadly outcomes in Federal government attributes, according to the Trumpeter Swan Culture studies. (M.Sladen, J. California king The late seventies) It's not at all unlikely mime swans continuing their particular old option, joining these people inside migration from Russia. It's very hard for seekers to distinguish swan varieties, "in the midst,Inch since shown in information gathered upon trumpeter losses in the course of tundra swan searching time in the Pacific Flyway. MBC, MBTA,MBTRA Your Migratory Chickens Conference (MBC) (1916) is the primary authority with regard to national security of migratory birds--the Migratory Hen Agreement Behave (MBTA) is their enabling laws. Silence swans ended up existing and also well-known throughout The united states in the event the MBC ended up being created, together these people not already been intended for protection, the MBC would likely probably get thus suggested. Since ancestral silence swans had been primitive inhabitants involving United states, ended up right here throughout early colonization within Europe along with the United States (Utes.Deb.Ripley 1965) and information from your Trumpeter Swan Culture reports suggests the movements regarding Eurasian mute swans into Ak,(T.Full,68.) this would make up the homecoming, by way of enduring family member, of the once-present genotype that will started to be wiped out or perhaps rare, in a previous niche. This is instead just like the restoration regarding Trumpeter swans by federal and state agencies, via inventory purchased in Medical professional. Blauuw, inside The netherlands, (Herscheid1904) which the agencies view while "a homecoming.In . Your Chesapeake Bay Dilemma The actual Chesapeake Fresh and its tributaries cover 41,000,000 massive areas. From the a lot more than One,000,1000 waterfowl which overwinter as well as go through the particular Chesapeake Fresh each year, only 3800 mute swans get have you been relied presently there, based on DNR estimations, 04. Many of these are parrots coming from away from the sea states which move to available h2o coming from locations ponds frost nova inside winter seasons. There is absolutely no comparison involving high population waterfowl, numbering inside the thousands, (some of which ended up created by the agencies, regarding searching,) along with the silence swans, in such tiny figures. The companies develop a distinction, by simply suggesting the particular silence swan is actually non-native, determined by junk or perhaps absolutely no research,since the National Courtroom of Appeals, District of The philipines Enterprise identified (Beginning of 2001,2003) The mutes are usually charged with excessive having of eelgrass, a immersed underwater place. Eelgrass is actually responsive to polluting of the environment, which usually boosts water temperature, getting rid of the particular grasses. Eelgrass needs salinity and lightweight and is also annoyed simply by trawlers, abnormal fishing boat targeted traffic, and especially getting rid of involving reliable and also drinks waste materials along with non-point seeping regarding detritus through hog as well as fowl facilities, along with previous septic programs as well as h2o remedy crops. This is where the focus must be, for the people who develop these conditions. Over half in the waterfowl varieties for the Chesapeake plus your estuaries try to eat eelgrass. It's recently been traditionally confirmed and possesses been recently therefore for thousands of years. After that, way too, you'll find cyclic world-wide loss involving eelgrass, certainly not relying on the particular fairly small number of mime swans, the following along with other areas world wide. Nonetheless, anti-mute swan sentiment permeates point out, provincial along with government wild animals operations organization daily activities, based on the preconception these chickens are usually no local, and not worthy of Fresh grasses.The actual Md express DNR goes to extremes in their initiatives to justify this particular, recommending in which mute swans make an environment regarding terns, which can be preposterous. Terns home in small stones, swans inside reeds. Normally the one circumstance continually placed apparently occurred three decades previously also it would have been a "flock" of six terns, observed by simply 1 company guy, undocumented and also questionable. The actual trumpeter swan will be undoubtedly the more intense fowl (T. Gillette, 1988)(L.Johnson,1988)(H.Lueck 1989) yet in 1991 the condition of Washington put silence swans for the bad exotic creatures record along with removed these from your untamed, because of a observed danger with other waterfowl (N. Kraege 1991) Yet again, it's not to say which aggression isn't due to unnatural circumstances manufactured by person. Inserting parrots in which they're encountered with "management" increase the severity of your situation. Permitting aircraft skiers for you to harass any kind of waterfowl can be excessive, get the job done boating fanatics do purchase permit. When it comes to your mime swan, again the mistaken tag regarding non-native is utilized to justify unlawful actions. The companies are supposed to safeguard wild animals, certainly not people disobeying the law. The particular reaction from the parrots is a natural one particular and is not tied to this types. You must request, the way the mute swan, the chicken viewed as hostile in the us, provides after a large part around the globe, obtained a standing along with manifested tranquility as well as serenity for over a thousand a long time, already been put into theme parks wherever kids feed these, and therefore are noticed about loose change and stamps. This particular singling away and also developing a "royal bird" even so, provides played out a bad function and a bitterness, often shown inside violent management of these parrots which continues to this day, among those who resent the significance, developed by man, not the actual hen. Irrespective, a national random policy at some point required condition through which silence swans ended up deemed exotics, maintained as if credit card with the MBTA. About 12 , Twenty eight, 2001, the usa Digicam Court docket of Appeals (Hill / Norton)dominated the MBTA expression "Anatidae, or even waterfowl, such as ducks, geese and also swans" features almost all swans inside North America, which include mutes. In The spring '04, force came about from Annapolis, Mi, Wisconsin along with Rhode Isle, most promoting the "placement" of trumpeter swans just as one best hunting trophy fowl, to change the MBTA in order to don't include mute swans. Inside November of these year, the actual "Migratory Bird Handle Change Act" came to exist, appended to an Omnibus shelling out Costs, without having Home or perhaps Economic council chair ballots, a maneuver Senator Lieberman and Congressman Simmons stated "was illegal.In . In 2006, the silence swan ended up being officially delisted. The actual Lewis and Clark Connection Lewis and also Clark have been asked by simply Johnson Jefferson to collect some trumpeter swans during their journey. Through the first the main Adventure swans have been known inside geological record 12 occasions, eaten, actually, yet there is zero mention of types or even pleasure observed before the go back journey, with the bottom of the Columbia Lake, where these people discovered trumpeters and tundras. The particular swans that they saw with Independence day Stream, inside Kansas-Missouri region, about This summer Four -7 1804, do not possess been either trumpeter or racing swans (now known as tundras), who would have your n . latitudes, nesting. Both the trumpeter and tundra swans travel upper within April/May on their nesting grounds. Ornithologists recognize chicken species usually simply by structure involving behavior, the key a single becoming migration. Just what varieties of swan will be in that area then? Perhaps silence swans, invisible inside the comparatively pristine country, in the same way trumpeters had been, inside vastness with the north west, parts of Canada and Ak, just before these folks were "rediscovered.In . Migration tracks will often be confirmed to be an incredible number of years old. Flightless swans have been reported by P. Jacques Marquette throughout Summer 1673 inside Higher Ms location, after dark ancient propagation range of the trumpeter or even tundra swans (Thwaites 1959). Grownup swans were pointed out from Pond Erie by simply Hennepin (1698), outside of the possible propagation range of trumpeters as well as tundras (Bellrose 1976). As outlined by Papa Ernest Jouvency (Thwaites 1959), swans that they defined as "olores" ended up propagation close to Cabot Strait, Gulf of mexico regarding Saint. Lawrence throughout 1610, inside areas in which neither tundra neither trumpeter as well as tundra swans actually selectively bred. Discussion and findings Persuading paleontological evidence realises,there's no question that will a number of proto-mute lineages were indigenous to the actual region. The North U . s . mute swan homologues had been ancient and also indigenous, imprisoned genotypes whose improvement broken ahead of time, or even became much decreased inside amount,as well as other faunal patients with the so-called phenomenon associated with Pleistocene Annihilation (Savage, pers.org.). That they easiky may have started in the Kamchatka, Russia/Siberian Historic and became a member of another swan kinds within migration on the U . s . country. A few Eurasian vagrant mutes have got obviously pioneered directly into North America throughout recent occasion, as equally tundra swans (whizzing along with Bewick's) and also whooper swans have been noted to complete, within Trumpeter Swan Society Paperwork (T.Sladen The late seventies) (M.King The late seventies) The Tundra swans regularly travel through the Seashore regarding Okhatsk There is certainly implicative famous info indicating mutes have been seen in North America noisy . colonial periods (Utes.Deborah.Ripley,Smithsonian) Most important pieces of proof coalesce in to a circumstance effective which mutes ended up portion of American avifaunal major background. It can be indeniable in which silence swans had been contained in early Twentieth century in America, in the event the MBC as well as MBTA had been getting drawn up along with ratified. It could be really unlikely that this formulators associated with thosedocuments were unaware that will mutes swans ended up within United states in those days. Failure with the MBC specifically leave out silence swans from its defensive provisions indicates the authors would not intend to allow them to be overlooked, simply because they ended up right here. In fact, inside the MBTA, swans and eiders were divided out as well as having these people through searching or scientific research had been considered unlawful. Despite the fact that, in america, the particular de-listing involving silence swans features led to your killing of swans, while state-initiated packages, the actual Canadian Creatures Program looks at the particular birds to become fully guarded within Canada. Only within British Columbia features a nearby treatment recently been conducted, understanding that was at addition to the trumpeter swan reintroduction project, as is also being done in your Usa Sates, to your waste. Inches Swans are generally citizens of the World" stated Peter Scott, throughout Swans around the globe (1972) Bibliography on request in ELLCT@aol.com

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